Feedback is a Gift with Scout Brisson
Lauren and I sat down with Scout Brisson on the pod a few months ago, yes, the CEO of Katy Perry’s non-alc company, and in our discussion she shared a story about how when she was early in her career, working as an intern at McKinsey, she was given feedback from her boss and her boss’s boss that was really hard to hear. They told her that she was not acting like an owner (something very important to the McKinsey culture), and that as such, if she were not an intern, but instead a full time person of McKinsey, she would have been let go. Now, when you think of the woman who is now CEO for A-List celebrity Katy Perry’s company, you don’t necessarily think “almost got fired for poor performance” do you? I didn’t!
In our conversation with Scout, she shared how hard it was to hear this feedback, and yet, that it was one of the greatest gifts she’s ever been given. Did the words hurt? Yes. But, at the same time, this feedback was monumental for her career. Had she not been given this very direct feedback, very early on in her career, who knows where she would be today. “Feedback is a gift,” she says, a viewpoint that she’s brought with her into her own people leadership style, having the hard conversations when she needs to, out of the best interest of the people reporting to her.
As someone who’s both been given feedback from managers, and been a manager myself responsible for giving feedback to others, trust me when I say, it’s not an easy thing on either end! On the delivering end, you can be well-meaning and deliver it totally wrong to someone you care a lot about. On the receiving end, you can really be trying to receive feedback as the gift it is and still just not be in the headspace where you can hear it without feeling devastated. It’s a dance and it’s a hard one. That said, we can certainly try — try to be better at giving feedback, AND try to be better at receiving it.
In the book Radical Candor by Kim Scott, Kim presents a framework for giving and receiving feedback that I think is really powerful, so powerful, actually, that I wrote about it in my book, and in my day to day as a people manager, try to incorporate the principles of this framework into how I think about delivering feedback to my people. I thought I would share that today in hopes that it helps you think about how you both give and receive feedback in your own life and career.
There are two things very important when managing others and delivering feedback. First, is that you care personally about those people. Second, is that you are willing to challenge those people directly, when you need to, so that they can excel in their role and in their careers. These are the key ingredients that go into delivering feedback effectively.
Take these important factors and think about them as an X and Y axis, where caring personally is on the Y axis, the more you care, the higher you are on the axis; and challenging directly is on the X axis, the more you are willing to challenge directly, the further to the right you are.
Now that you’ve got that in your minds’ eye, here’s what you need to know: the goal in delivering feedback effectively, without feeling like you’re an asshole, is to fall into the top right quadrant, where you both care a lot AND because you care a lot, you challenge the person you care about directly, out of respect for them and helping them become their highest self. This is radical candor.
While Radical Candor is the ideal way to deliver feedback effectively, unfortunately, well meaning managers might end up in one of the other quadrants:
1) Ruinous Empathy - where they care personally, but they don’t challenge you directly, actually inhibiting you from growing into your highest self
2) Manipulative Insincerity - where they don’t care personally, and don’t challenge you directly, again, inhibiting you from growing into your highest self
3) Obnoxious Aggression - where they do challenge directly, but don’t care personally about you, while receiving feedback in this style may be hurtful, think about the gift they are giving you — feedback! and take it with a grain of salt.
Now that you understand the factors that go into delivering feedback effectively, and have a better understanding of where you might be naturally inclined to fall in the feedback quadrants, reflect on the last time you gave feedback to someone —
What was the situation?
How did you give that person the feedback?
Did you care personally about this person?
Did you challenge this person directly?
What was the result?
Could it have gone better?
How would you do things differently if given the opportunity to give that feedback again?
Ask yourself the same questions about the person who most recently gave you feedback. How did it feel to be on the receiving end? What did they do well? What do you wish they did different? Ultimately, how has that feedback shaped you? Are you better off for it?
My guess is yes, feedback rarely feels good in the moment, but we are always better off for it.
Giving (and receiving) feedback is tough, and I think it’s something we can all do better. If you’re ever questioning whether or not to deliver constructive feedback to someone you care about, I want you to remember Scout’s story:
What if her manager hadn’t been brave enough to give her the feedback? Where would she be today? Because her manager was brave enough to the hard thing of caring personally, and challenging directly, Scout went on to create, launch and run companies that touch the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.
When you care personally, and challenge directly, you have the opportunity, like Scout’s manager, to help someone meet their highest potential. Don’t hold them back from that out of fear that you’ll hurt their feelings. Be brave enough to have the tough conversations, because you never know who’s life you’ll change in the process.
You got this!
Did you love Scout’s recipe for success? Then you will probably love her go-to home-cooked meal, these Cauliflower Tacos with Cashew Crema.
